Smooth Jazz Now.com :

Welcome to the second in the Smooth Jazz Now 'behind the mic' series of interviews. Last month, John Beaudin interviewed Mike Marshall of Hamilton's Smooth Jazz station 'The Wave,' this month we head west, to Calgary's 'The New Breeze,' where I caught up with Cliff Dumas, who co-host's the Breeze's morning show. (Update - Dumas is leaving the Breeze in March 2004)

Liz Rivard - Cliff, after reading your CV, you have amassed an incredible list of accomplishments, to name a few, you're the only Canadian Broadcaster to win the Country Music Association Personality of the Year, named Canadian Country Radio Personality of the Year by the CCMA (Canadian Country Music Association). Plus with your wife, Lisa, you were named Canadian Radio Personalities of the year in 2000 for your nationally syndicated Canadian Country Showdown. That is pretty impressive, Cliff, you are obviously a talent to be reckoned with but I can't help noticing everything I have mentioned here is for 'Country,' how did you find your way to a brand new Smooth Jazz station?

Cliff Dumas - There were a number of things that came to play when we decided on what to do. My contract had reached the point in New Mexico where I had to renew for another three years or decide to move on to something else. I think when we

had our baby we realized that we were pretty well several flights and several hours away from all of the families and we needed to be a lot closer. Geographically we wanted to move a lot closer and there were some opportunities that we were looking at to make that move. There was one in Chicago, there was a couple in Toronto and kind of on the outskirts of things was this Calgary opportunity. I think from a career standpoint for me I feel like I've gone as far as I can in Country. I still love the format and I wanted to be involved on a different level like working on television productions on a national scale morethan a radio scale and from a career standpoint I feel like there's nothing more exciting than launching a new radio station. So being part of as far as the Breeze in concerned, launching a format that's never been tried was really exciting to me. I've been a fan of this music for a number of years. I've been a music fan in general over the years and it's helped me climatize myself to many different formats. I've been talent coaching on stations that were more A.C.(adult contemporary) than Country over the last number of years in the United States and really enjoyed that. So I think the principles are much the same and the challenges of trying something different and being part of a new launch with a company (NewCap Broadcasting) that really blew me away with their attitude on radio. They were not getting locked up in that corporate end of things that seems to happen with the big conglomerates especially in the United States with the Clear Channels and the Citadels the different radio companies down there. So there were all kinds of different opportunity's and motivations for coming here. Family, creatively something different which excited me, involvement on a radio show that didn't require me to the same kind of things that I'd been doing in the past. This was reinventing so much of what has been done on radio before.

Cliff - I think so. You're talking to an adult audience, an audience that's passionate about music in many case's an audience that you have to educate on a style of music that they are clearly enjoying but don't know too much about. I find so many parallels between that and having the opportunity to launch the first Country FM in Toronto. It's very much the approach we had there, we were introducing a city that had traditionally not been a country city and to the fact that's it's not what the stereotype of what people thought it was in the past. It's a great form of music that you just have to try in order to love. I think that Smooth Jazz for so many reasons is very much along the same lines in techniques in launching the station that I did so many years ago in Country music.

Cliff - Well sure. The obvious base that they all draw from but again I think it's the approach to introducing people to a new music that perhaps they haven't heard before. I think that's very exciting. Watching people in the audience discover and love what their hearing is also very exciting part of the creative process that goes into launching a brand new radio station. Even though so many elements of this are being called Smooth Jazz it's very much a hybrid in a format that's never been tried in this country or the United States. The cool thing about this is they (NewCap) were very particular on what they did when they came into the marketplace researching the kind of music that this audience wanted to hear. So they didn't take a format that has worked in the United States and simply copied it thinking if it worked there it'll work here. They target this radio station for Calgary and Calgarian's and they want to make it work. I think because they've done that and are taking so much care to continue to do that I think it's going to continue to be a huge success. That's ultimately what the failure in the Country format was in Toronto. That company just believed its own press, followed its own direction and basically tried to recreate a history for a music that everybody new was false. So ultimately that was the downfall of the Country format in

Toronto. You know I saw this to so many people and that's Country didn't fail in Toronto the company failed Country.

Liz - So do you think Calgary is ready for this type of Smooth Jazz station, it's not going to just evolve into another light music station?

Cliff - Not at all. I think the exciting thing about this is it's really offering something really different and really unique and this is a first class city that demands variety. A city of this size should have a lot more choices than it has now. You've got a lot of corporate offices, a lot of very affluent people who are making a great living and whose tastes are very refined and there hasn't been a radio station in town that's played to that. In the years that I've been coming back and fourth to Calgary working on television projects over the years I've noticed that it's basically been a stagnant radio market. Now it's getting exciting and people have many different choices to find the niche and the style of music that they enjoy.

Liz - One of the things I noticed about your radio show especially when I sat in with you and on air partner Sue Deyell, the atmosphere was so relaxed I felt like I was visiting with you in your living room. Tell me about Sue, your relationship with her, what makes you two 'click' so well?

Cliff - You know Sue is one of the best partners I've ever had. I've had a number of different on air partners in the many radio stations I've worked at and sometimes up to five different people that you have to organize. My job as the host has always been to coordinate those five people, to play traffic cop and I think radio stations over time have basically thrown a whole bunch of people in the room and thought 'whatever happens, happens.' Even sometimes when you're very particular in choosing the people the chemistry still doesn't work. So when the chemistry does work it really is magic and I feel Sue and I have that. She's a terrific person, friends of the family and she's been over many times and our daughter just loves her and she's a terrific person to work with. Our senses of humor are very similar. I think what you saw in there the kind of easy going atmosphere speaks volumes for both of us. I think we've both been doing it a long time and we're both challenged by the different direction that this radio station wants to take with this morning show and that part of it is a lot of fun. To do something that's really different has been creatively the real challenge for us but it's also a fun challenge in a very good way. So many radio stations over time have said they're going to put three people together and my argument to that has always been name me any comedy team of three that's been successful other than the three Stooges? It's much easier to have the chemistry with two. When you add three, four, five people it becomes very difficult to not only coordinate it but to make it not sound like an absolute collision of voices on the air kind of like 'The View' is like on television. (laughing).

Liz - (laughing) Right! As I said your chemistry is almost like it's choreographed but it's so spontaneous, it's really a pleasure. Tell me about the biggest mistake you hear other broadcasters make?

Cliff - Well, I think that generally the biggest mistake that any broadcaster makes over time is not being prepared. I don't think it's any one key issue but you can always tell when a broadcaster is prepared because he knows what he's talking about, he's concise about what he's talking about and that broadcaster has done some work. I think it's a privilege to be on the radio and to entertain people and it's a huge responsibility given to us every morning to have people wanting to spend time with us to enjoy our personalities, our take on the world and our perspective on what's going on. So it's our responsibility to set the tone for the day for so many people whether it's in our attitude towards the music and the type of music we play which is paramount but it's also in our delivery of what we choose to talk about. So I think that's a huge responsibility and a lot of work needs to go into that and to prep that and to make sure that what you're saying are the right things and not wasting peoples time in the morning. I always say this to young people that are coming along and that there's a reason why the Letterman's and the Jay Leno's are where they are, they have ten writers! They may go out there and look spontaneous but they've had a team of people working and processing what it is they're going to say. So I think there's one mistake that broadcasters make and that's believing that their bigger than they are and better than they are and all they need to do is turn on the microphone and through some gift of God they're going to be interesting. I can tell you that nine times out of ten their not but the people that put a lot of work into it and put research into it and really think about what they're going to say before they say it are the people who are successful in this business.

Cliff - It's something fairly new you know. I was approached to do it in the United States and I've been asked to do it here to some extent and the process is just beginning. Because of the advent of automation, voice- tracking where you have for instance in Toronto where you voice- track the all night shows there is virtually no place for someone coming along that can be bad. It used to be that you kind of cut your teeth on all night shows but they don't exist anymore. When you can have your world class mid-day host or afternoon drive guy voice- track an all night show sure it sounds amazing and it cuts down on your costs but it does very little to help create this talent pool that the industry needs. Even though they are very good at designing radio stations very few of the Program Directors or consultants have been truly successful in a major market on the air. I can't even name one! Part of the reason that I was asked to do that is because I've been lucky enough to be successful in major markets doing radio shows in Canada and the United States. What better way to teach somebody than from someone who has done it successfully in a major market. There's a lot to know like how do you produce a comedy bit, how do you write parody songs, how do you illicit talent in order to do this. How do you put together those type of radio shows, well it doesn't just happen. So taking that kind of information and being able to share it with somebody coming along is great. Also sharing it with some of the people who have been doing it before. I think you have a lot more credibility walking into a room if you've done it before and others know that you have, so their more willing to learn from you.

Liz - Following up on that do you have some tips on new talent trying to break into the business?

Cliff - Seek out the people who have been successful and contact them, talk to people, ask questions, do whatever you can to allow yourself to be multi-tasking and to have more then just one ability. We live in a world now where technology allows us to be our own producers and you should have the ability to do many things and not just specialize in one. There are many radio stations out there that need the kind of people to do those types of things but there are just not as many as there used to be going back to that whole voice-tracking thing. As stations grow and these companies grow and put three, four different radio stations in a market place their expecting more people to do more work. I always go back to the being prepared mentality and don't ever, ever turn on a microphone before you've thought about what you're going to say. Also read and know what you're talking about because this is not brain surgery it's suppose to be fun. I think many, many people who have had success in this industry are very approachable and should be. You should seek out these people and talk to them.

Cliff - I remember it was an all night show in Brampton Ontario and I believe it was a disco station -790 Disco. I had to read news and do the shift and I've never read news before in my entire life so that was interesting. All I know is that I was just terrible and it was terrible for a long time but I was lucky because I had the opportunity to be terrible. There were also a lot of good people a long the way that taught me and that's another thing, you have to be open to learn. This industry tends to be driven by insecurity and ego and I don't think either of those two things are healthy in an environment where you need to learn and learn quickly in order to secure your job and be good at it. I've been lucky that way I've had a lot of good people along the way teach me what I've needed to learn. Also the process never stops you can never stop learning or getting better. You can sit here and say these are things that you need to do a good radio show and go on the next morning and make all the mistakes so it's a process that never stops.

Cliff - Oh yeah! (Laughing) For me probably some of the biggest situations I've run into where that has happened have been in television more than radio. The reason that I gravitated towards Country as soon as the opportunity presented itself when I was 23 or 24 is the same reason I've gravitated towards Smooth Jazz is that these artists are very real and are very thankful for the opportunity to have their music played on radio. They remember where they came from and are very approachable and down to earth people very much like the Country audience. So I by passed a lot of the industry that I knew through other people who worked in it that had those kind of personalities in it. Country radio tended to be very down to earth and very friendly so I saw more of it in the television industry than I ever saw it in radio. This is radio and sometimes people have a high opinion of themselves and sometimes (laughing) that can work against you. We're not doing anything special we're just privileged to be able to play artists who are very gifted and what a great opportunity that is.

Cliff - Boy, I've been doing that since the station launched. I think I've just been lucky through the years with my association with Country where one thing led to another. I was hired in the very beginning of CMT and back then it wasn't even CMT I think it was NCN (The New Country Network.) When they first launched they hired me to host a video countdown and I've been the voice of the Canadian Country Music Awards I think for fifteen or sixteen years. I think the industry kind of embraced me as the voice of Country music which again to me is kind of mind blowing. It's an opportunity that I take very seriously and I'm honored to be associated with those things that people are saying. The association with CMT has been fun, I love the industry, I love the music and I love the people in it.

Liz - Do you still want to continue your writing and producing in the Country genre?

Cliff - Absolutely, because I know the industry so well I also have associations with CBC that have kind of branched out on that a little bit given the opportunity to do something in the Smooth Jazz end of things beyond Country. So it seems that those opportunities will be presenting themselves this year because there are opportunities as a writer that I've been involved with that are not necessarily Country. I've worked on the Anne Murray special and I've done a couple of those but this is my first time writing it. When we did the Paul Brandt show there was a Christian artist there and Natalie McMaster so formatically for me it keeps expanding.

Cliff - There are so many of them that I really enjoy. I'm really liking Mindi Abair's stuff. She's a new artist who wrote just about everything on her album. I like Euge Groove, this guy launched his career on the internet basically and was signed by Warner Brothers. I like Michael Lington, Norah Jones and B.W.B. which is such a great combination having super Smooth Jazz groups being put together. Their version of 'Groovin' I think is wonderful and I could go on and on. I also love Steve Cole and Diana Krall which goes without saying. I'm just a fan and I think the fun thing you'll be hearing on the radio station over the next little while is access to all of these artists. You'll be hearing a lot more of them talking about their music and their loves and I think that's the fun part of this job is being able to introduce a new audience to new music and get to meet them too.

Liz - I understand at one point you worked on air with your wife Lisa. Do you think that'll ever happen again?

Cliff - We've talked about it. It's funny we've just been offered a job together in North Carolina about a month ago. We went to the States as a team and had great success doing it but it's a lot of pressure on a married couple. When we started a family we both didn't want to be waking up at four o'clock in the morning. It was fun while it lasted but I'm not sure if the opportunity would present itself that we'd really want to jump into it at this point but never say never.

Liz - Well, let's fast forward to maybe May 2005. Tell me where is Cliff Dumas?

Cliff - Wow, well hopefully at the Breeze in the number one position. (Laughing) I love what I do and I've been surprised over the last couple of years at some of the twists and turns that my career has taken. At this moment I'm working towards putting on a successful morning show and augmenting that with opportunities that really challenge me creatively in the television field. I would like to see both of those things compliment each other in much the same way I attacked the Country format in one has to support the other. Where there is a television opportunity there are opportunities to tell great stories on the radio and where there are opportunities on radio to present themselves to maybe produce a television show. We're in one of the greatest cities in the world and I love it here. Having the mountains in our backyard is great. There are virtually an unlimited number of opportunities to showcase the province as well. We're actually working on a show to be pitched to the government for the 2005 Centennial for Alberta and for Saskatchewan. I'm working on something this week to be pitched to the CBC in Alberta, some of the artists are country, some are rock and variety is the key to this show. We're looking at simulcasting in four different cities, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina and Saskatoon showcasing the variety we have in both provinces. So that's something that I'm really excited about working on and that's 2005 so there you go.

Liz - Before we close off I have to tell you that I personally have really enjoyed your morning show and your chemistry with Sue (Deyell).

Cliff - Thank you. Well, you know honestly I've worked with so many people and in most cases I think I've always had good relationships with the people I've worked with and guided the relationship in the way the show needed to go. Sue has been bar none my favorite to work with and we've only been on the air six or seven months. All the experts say in order for a team to gel you have to give them up to at least two years.